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JP nous parle d'Oliveira

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Daniel
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Inscrit: 22/09/2008

Voila comme vous avez pus le lire (ou pas) ... JP a bien connu Oliveira ...Borba .. Bragance ..etc...
Alors perso comme j'aime énormément l'équitaiton pratiqué d'Oliveira je lui ai demandé s'il veut nous en parler...
Ce qu'il a accepté.... 

ALors pour un début j'avais demandé dans l'autre post  qu'il nous parle de ses cours qu'il a suivit ...

Il allait aussi mettre une préface qu'il a fait sur Oliveira ...

Voilà ... soyons patient il part en stage  durant 4 jours...

Merci à lui et peut être que d'autres qui l'ont bien connu pourront nous en parler aussi...

Bonne journée

JP
Déconnecté
Inscrit: 21/05/2013

                                                   Preface to the English edition, by Jean Philippe Giacomini

Nuno Oliveira, the Greatest Equestrian Intelligence of the 20th Century

At sixteen, I started my quest for a higher form of Horsemanship. Simply said, I was trying to get a clue on the How-and-Why of what I had been doing on horseback ‘by the seat of my pants’. I had ridden lots of colts, done a bit of eventing, show-jumping and rode (without great success) in steeple-chase races. My new passion was dressage and I had trained a few horses to do my bidding, in some approximate way. Prompted by the encouragements of my mentor Georges Caubet, who was one of the early French visitors to the school of the Portuguese classical master Nuno Oliveira, and after a day spent watching Michel Henriquet ride his wonderfully trained horses, I realized that there was more to riding than I had experienced thus far. As a result, I visited Portugal for the first time to study for one month with Oliveira during the holidays. The day I arrived at his school, the Master casually asked me if I knew how to do a ‘shoulder-in’ and I assured him that I did. “Can you do a ‘half-pass’?” I got a little suspicious of where this conversation was leading. With already less assurance, I told him that: “Yes, I have done some”. “How about a circle?” In a little voice, I uttered: “I think I can”, preparing myself for some form of rebuke. Instead came his tongue-in-cheek, yet sincere, answer: “You are one lucky rider: I have been attempting to ride a perfect circle for 40 years and I hope I will soon succeed”. In this ironic statement lays the entire secret of horsemanship: rather than exclusively pursuing the pride of showing-off one’s talent by performing difficult tricks (or higher levels of competition), a dedicated rider must always work at perfecting the simplest exercises. Four and a half decades later, I am still studying the aids of the perfect circle and trying to remember how HE did it.

This was my introduction to the mind of the man who became my teacher and the inspiration of my professional life. Forty six years later, the translation of this important book brings back to my memory the sentences I heard over and over in the tiny indoor manege of the Quinta da Chafariz in Povoa de Santo Adriao, a few miles from Lisbon. During that first visit, I met Antoine de Coux who was also on his first voyage to the place he would return to for many years. We became fast friends and I later visited Antoine in Belgium. He had a wise attitude acquired through many years on the judicial bench and an inquiring mind passionate about his discovery of dressage. I returned for a year in 1970, which I spent riding Oliveira’s wonderful schoolmasters. More importantly, I had the opportunity to start five young stallions under his daily supervision. This experience instilled in me the fundamental importance of impulsion through forward movement as the basis for all training. Later on, I took a job as assistant trainer at the National Stud of Alter do Chao (where the Alter Real horses of the Portuguese School of Equestrian Art are bred). For nearly four years at the stud, I was the student of Dom Jose Athayde, head rider of the stud and himself a very distinguished disciple of Master Oliveira. In Alter I rode all the stallions previously trained by Athayde and Dr. Borba, as well as many more colts, following Oliveira’s approach.

 

I lost contact with Antoine and it is not without emotion that I read the amazing work of compilation of all those notes he had taken tirelessly during two and a half decades of loyal and attentive study. They contain many repetitions that are used to underline the preoccupation of Oliveira with some fundamental concepts he held dear and it was Antoine’s hope that this system would really etch these ideas in the mind of the readers who had not benefitted from Oliveira’s direct teaching. To help the reader better understand the context of each advice that is not self-explanatory, I have taken the liberty to insert notes in brackets to clarify the ideas expressed, all based on my own observations of his training. It is my hope that the English speaking readers will find these added notes helpful to their understanding of the work. To paraphrase Norman Maclean's “A River Runs Through It”, we could say of Nuno Oliveira: "To him, all good things - dressage as well as eternal salvation - come by grace and grace comes by art and art does not come easy”. This book is about making the art of training horses a little bit easier for the many admirers of Master Nuno Oliveira eager to know his secrets.   

 

Nuno Oliveira was a spiritual man deeply interested in the human condition and in his art, dressage, as a vehicle for the elevation of the soul. If his teaching was inspired by his artistic aspirations and got him lost into philosophical musings from time to time, he never forgot that for him as well as for his students, “art doesn’t come easy”. His teaching was always very practical: a few basic principles we must always remember and a thousand details that take a long time to observe, understand and master. He had learned his craft through a very long and intense practice of training literally hundreds of horses into all the difficulties of Equestrian Art, but also by reading all the French books he found in the library of one of his early patrons, Manuel de Barros. Oliveira’s work was a perfect synthesis of intelligent and selective erudition with an immense experience. It is our luck to be able to benefit from the results of this rare combination.    

In his clinics and his daily lessons at his farm, most of the students were under the spell of his mystique and they adored deciphering the sometimes cryptic advice and the entertaining stories, but the ones who really succeeded later as horse trainers paid attention to the minutia of what Oliveira taught. A famous general said, in essence, that “in love as in war, success resides in the execution”. This is also completely true of horse training. Sometimes there are apparent contradictions in what the Master said, but that is because there are many practical exceptions to the rules according to the horse, to the moment and to the goal pursued. To quote again Norman Maclean's “A River Runs Through It”, which tells us a lot of interesting things about acquiring mastery: "That's one trouble with hanging around a master - you pick up some of his stuff, like how to cast into a bush [while fly fishing for trout], but you use it just when the master is doing the opposite." I hope the notes included in the text will explain as much as possible some of the conditions in which Oliveira’s teachings were applied.

Oliveira insisted that he was, above all, interested in results much more than in dressage theories, though he knew them all. His exceptional equestrian intelligence resided in the fact that he knew when to do what and how much, and which author’s advice was useful at which moment and which advice had no real value. Oliveira’s art was greater than the sum of all the knowledge he assembled from the relevant authors who came before him. He had a unique perspective on dressage because he really “owned” all the information he had acquired through trying out the techniques he learned from the books. The master told me once in a conversation: “I have tried everything in dressage”, he meant every technique, every bit, every rein, until proven useful or useless. He had no taboos or dogmatic allegiance. Thanks to that immense curiosity he discovered the ideas that led to the simplification of his principles based either on La Gueriniere, Steinbrecht or Baucher and the multiplication of his techniques adapted to the many training situations he had encountered. All of his choices were not made in blind reverence to the past but because they were supremely effective while always respecting the emotional, mental and physical well being of the horse.

One of Oliveira’s leading preoccupations is the lightness of the horse’s response to the aids, which implies that the rider always tries to do less whenever possible, but never hesitates to do as much as warranted by occasional resistances. He relentlessly insists that this lightness must be the result of a constant impulsion rather than the pernicious abandonment of the contact. His driving idea is the roundness of the horse: the slight lift of the back, the tilting of the pelvis, the soft arching of the neck. Another leading concept is the cadence that must be as slow as possible without losing an ounce of energy. Though you will find many mentions of putting weight on the back end of the horse in order to make sure the balance is not on the forehand, the equilibrium Oliveira preferred was quite horizontal with equal weight on both ends of the horse, as we can see in his pictures and movies. He did not elevate the poll very much like Baucher Second Manner (an idea he abandoned after a period of exploration in his youth), nor did he lower the quarters as much as La Gueriniere did. He preferred a conservative approach that did not force the horse and built the collection by the engagement of the hind legs under the body rather than reporting weight backward by the incessant use of half-halts as in the German system. In Oliveira’s mind this is the true difference between true collection and compression. To him, training collection consists of applying “a million ‘comprehensive effects’ (‘Effet d’Ensemble’ that relaxes the horse under the combined effect of the spurs and hand), followed by a million ‘yielding of the aids’ (‘Descente de main et de jambes’)”. The result is a horse that stays in self-carriage as “on freedom on parole” and “enjoys himself in the airs and movements he is performing”.            

A particularity of Oliveira’s work was the very slow, but very energetic walk he preferred to practice the gymnastic exercises that he used systematically to develop suppleness, balance and straightness. This slow walk was one of his signatures and the way he managed to create that much energy in the walk had a lot to do with his other great achievement: slow, calm and elevated piaffes. The book contains many practical advices on sequences of exercises designed to resolve particular problems, in particular the work of young horses. Great detail is given on the use of the shoulder-in that Oliveira calls the “aspirin of equitation” because of its value in resolving so many problems. Of note is the use of his rational approach to counter-canter that is different from the accepted practice and permits a much earlier improvement of the balance at the canter (placing the horse in the bend of the turn rather than the bend of the lead at the beginning of training and only bending the horse with the lead as he learns canter half-passes). The Master had no qualms about using draw reins when necessary and explains their positive use in several applications. All of this work collected through twenty years of lessons observed by Antoine de Coux in real time is eminently useful and deserves to be read over and over until fully absorbed.       

Oliveira’s work may be called classical, but a better description would be “classic” because it is a work for the ages that represents the culmination of four centuries of development of the Art. He achieved real equestrian wisdom through the selection he made for our benefit of all the concepts developed before him. Oliveira’s work cannot be hijacked by one faction or another as it is not based on any dogmatism or political correctness. It is “reality training” at its best and it is applicable to all fields of horsemanship. After my years of study in Portugal, and a stay in Spain, I eventually ended up in England training international level dressage, eventing and show jumping horses and I never had to deviate from the training principles I learned under Oliveira and his disciple Dom Jose Athayde. Though I have added a few techniques of my own to resolve the many problems that appear with the remedial horses I frequently encounter, I have always gone back to the teachings of Nuno Oliveira as the core of my approach during the hundreds of clinics I have given since I left Portugal in 1975. I am grateful to Xenophon Press for the opportunity of translating this major book because it made me the first beneficiary of its benefits by reminding me of all I forgot.   

Oliveira is single handedly responsible for the emergence of Portugal as a beacon of good horsemanship in the 20th century. Through his disciples Dr. Guilherme Borba and Dr. Joao Filipe Graciosa, he has influenced the formation of both the Royal Andalusian School of Equestrian Art and the Portuguese School of Equestrian Art. In turn, many of those riders have become successful competitors and teachers and are now influencing new generations of excellent riders. There is a fallacy today that classical dressage is different from competition dressage. Michel Henriquet, the French disciple of the Master demonstrated this concept of unity of good horsemanship by brilliantly training his wife Catherine to become French dressage champion and an Olympic rider. This supposed difference between classical and competition work is only true in the sense that some riders choose to ignore the concept of lightness and get away with it because judges are bound to grade what is in front of them, not the method by which the horses have been trained. My belief, based on a long experience, is that Nuno Oliveira’s teachings can be used to train any kind of horse for the FEI disciplines just as much as horses trained purely for art’s sake.

Horsemanship is in constant change through the breeding of better and better horses, the much increased frequency of clinics by international experts and the access we are gaining to the work of good riders in all corners of the world through the internet video sites. Somebody may well improve on Oliveira’s contribution to horsemanship but it will only happen if the next innovator has first studied his work in-depth and practiced on a lot of horses in order to add to the existing knowledge, not be deluded in re-inventing what has already existed for a century or two. There is no revolution in horsemanship, only evolution and Master Oliveira is the standard of today.                      

On a final note, I want to recall a conversation that stuck in my memory. It happened in 1970 when I was back in Portugal studying dressage full time. During the morning class, as Master Oliveira was growing impatient with the eight or ten of us frustratingly struggling with the difficulties of self-control on a horse, he stopped us in our tracks. Adopting the dramatic stance that he used when delving away from Haute-Ecole into philosophical digression, he asked: “Why do you ride horses?” One by one, embarrassed by having to publicly reveal our unresolved equestrian secrets, we muffled some unsatisfactory answers. Eventually, the Master articulated his profession of faith: “I ride horses because I love them.”

All of us remained silent, oscillating between embarrassment and cynicism. The great Master could not just have that reason alone to ride horses, did I think in the certainty of my twenty years of age. Well, he did! His riding demonstrated what he declared: he loved his horses and his horses loved him back and they had complete and unfailing respect for his authority. Riding was a romantic endeavor for Master Oliveira. His passion for his personal horses was only equaled by his fascination for the training process that he had studied in depth, supremely practiced and improved significantly for the common benefit of horses and humans.  

 

His passionate life may have sometimes reflected a very complex personality, but when he was on a horse (which was most of his waking hours), he was disciplined and selfless, yet completely involved in the artistic emotions that made his soul resonate. I believe he was happy in a profound way when he was on a horse. The more time went on, the more his conversation and his writings reflected a deep concern for the morality of horsemanship. His life, like the ones of many great artists, seemed a battlefield between the erring of the ego and his divinely inspired love for his equine partners with whom he practiced his chosen media, Equestrian Art. I think love definitely won.  

 

Jean Philippe Giacomini

Translator and devoted disciple                 

  

JP  Giacomini
Lexington Kentucky USA
www.jpgiacomini.com
www.baroquefarmsusa.com
www.equusacademy.com

Daniel Reyssat
Déconnecté
Inscrit: 23/04/2011

"there are many practical exceptions to the rules according to the horse, to the moment and to the goal pursue", voilà qui devrait nous faire réfléchir lors de querelles théoriques...

OLRY Juliette
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Inscrit: 17/03/2006

En équitation , comme dans la vie d'ailleurs, tout est vrai et tout et faux ... question de moment.

MAUREL Bernard
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Inscrit: 17/03/2006

il y a quand même des valeurs auxquelles on croit, auxquelles ont est attachés, et que l'on défend, comme celles des objectifs de notre association ... mais il est vrai que tout est relatif et question de moment, surtout avec nos amis les chevaux !

JP
Déconnecté
Inscrit: 21/05/2013

 J'ai essaye de repondre a tout ca (lequitaion d'Oliveira, ses lessons, etc.) mais le merveilleux systeme a bouffe mon post. Pas assez d'energie pour recommencer.

A plus, JP

JP  Giacomini
Lexington Kentucky USA
www.jpgiacomini.com
www.baroquefarmsusa.com
www.equusacademy.com

FARNAULT Philippe
Déconnecté
Inscrit: 25/07/2006

 Comme vous écrivez parfois longuement, je crois que vous avez intérêt à le faire d'abord sur votre ordinateur et de le coller sur le site ensuite... pour que nous puissions en profiter !

VOCHE Jacques
Déconnecté
Inscrit: 17/03/2006

"Aujourd'hui, nombreux sont les cavaliers qui se réclament de lui, y compris ceux dont la pratique n'a rien à voir avec la sienne. Les confidences qu'il m'a faites me laissent à penser que cette récupération par ses prétendus adeptes est quelque peu indécente."(Jean Marie DONARD parlant d'OLIVEIRA dans son livre Guide de dressage).
Et quant on sait qu'à son enterrement, ils étaient 5 et aucun de ceux qui actuellement font du "fric" sur son dos en se faisant passer pour ses disciples!!

Jean M. B.
Déconnecté
Inscrit: 19/08/2008

Voche: 

Et quant on sait qu'à son enterrement, ils étaient 5 et aucun de ceux qui actuellement font du "fric" sur son dos en se faisant passer pour ses disciples!!

Eh bien non, vous ne le savez pas! 

JP
Déconnecté
Inscrit: 21/05/2013

 La question originalle de ce thread etait l’enseignement d’Oliveira. Je ne peux repondre a ca que d’un point de vue tres personnel car l’enseignement equestre c’est l’auberge espagnole: on y trouve ce qu’on y amene.

Il disait beaucoup de choses, souvent poetiques, des fois techniques en ce qui concernait les exercises, les mains, les jambes, la ceinture. D’autres choses, comme le poids du cavalier, restaient obscures car il le faisait sans y penser, rapidement et comme il en avait besoin et ne le projetait pas toujours clairement aux eleves. Je me souviens d’une lesson qu’il m’a donne sur un cheval qui galopait mal a droite (avec moi) et je me suis fait agonir pendant une heure parce que le cheval se heurtait a ma main interieure jusqu’a ce que trouve tout seul ou m’asseoir (a l’exterieur) et tout s’est arrange instantanement. Il m’a embrasse et m’a paye un coup (enfin plusieurs J). Une autre fois, il me fait un grand speech pendant la lecon que je ne comprend pas tres bien. Au dejeuner, il m’emmene seul dans son taxi et me dit: “vous comprenez, je ne peux pas dire a la comtesse et a la princesse et a la duchesse qu’elles montent mal, alors je vous le dis a vous et j’espere qu’elles comprendront que ca les concerne”. Evidemment elles n’ont rien compris et se sont mises en devoir de m’expliquer tout ce soir la, car apparemment j’avais besoin d’aide.

Une chose qui l’enervait beaucoup c’etait les eleves qui ne dominaient pas leur chevaux et les laissaient jouer. De temps en temps quand il en avait marre, il emmenait tout le monde en balade au trot sans etriers dans les collines derriere son vieux manege. C’etait assez amusant de voir les intellectuels de l’equitation confrontes a des problemes de tenue et de conduite simples

Au lieu de s’emerveiler tout le temps, il fallait le regarder beaucoup et attentivement pour essayer de comprendre ce qu’il faisait car il n’expliquait pas souvent (jamais que je ne l’ai entendu en detail d’ailleurs) ce qu’il faisait a cheval. C’etait son monde personnel. Quand j’allais a l’ecurie le matin a 5 heures, il n’y avait pas foule. En fait je ne me souviens de personne qui soit venu au manege avant 9 heures.

J’ai eu quelques avantages pour comprendre tout ca. Le professeur Celestino da Costa venait monter a l’heure du dejeuner, je le regardais monter tous les jours ses 2 chevaux, son Alter Hioral et son anglo (??Prince), alors il me parlait et m’expliquait les trucs que je ne comprennais pas durant les lessons. Je suis aussi devenu tres ami (jusqu’a aujourd’hui) avec Francisco Cancella d’Abreu qui etait l’eleve de Borba, juste a cote. Nous dinions ensemble presque tous les soirs et nous eclairions notre lanterne l’un l’autre. Borba etait tres pratique dans son enseignement, pas du tout poetique et Francisco avait des idees tres claires de ce cote la que nous debattions avec passion. Il est devenu un grand professeur avec les annees (instructeur chez Domecq, coach de l’equipe portuguaise , etc.).

Je crois qu’il faut comprendre Oliveira dans le contexte portugais. Certains insistent pour le voir comme un “ecuyer de tradition francaise”. En fait tous les portugais sont des imitateurs nes qui absorbent toutes les equitations qu’ils rencontrent (Nuno Palma, ancient ecuyer de l’Ecole Portuguaise, aujourd’hui vit en Allemagne et fait de la tres bonne equitation allemande). Bien qu’il ait connu et compris l’equitation universelle, qu’il l’ait domine culturellement et pratiquement,  Nuno Oliveira est au fond un ecuyer portuguais, un “ecuyer tauromachique tres sophistique” comme dit Jose Manuel Correia Lopes, Voyez cette vieille video avec Listao, qui avait des annees de dressage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfiTTyi2He8&feature=related       

Il veut cette vibration du cheval sous lui, prêt a tout. Ce n’est pas de l’equitation de regularite et precision comme les allemands, ou de reflexion intellectuelle excessive comme nos chers gaulois, mais une equitation d’inspiration, d’imagination et d’improvisation. C’est ce que j’en ai retenu comme une partie de mon equitation personelle, aux cotes du reste: la gentillese dans l’autorite avec les chevaux, le respect de leur mecanique naturelle, la progression minutieuse des procedes, l’intelligence des solutions completement pratiques et jamais en suivant un fil rigide d’ecole mais toujours en respectant les principes fondamentaux de l’equitation universelle, l’obeissance a des signaux minima, la franchise et la bravoure des chevaux a l’exterieur. Bien qu’il est pratique souvent dans des espaces tres reduits, il faisait le contraire d’une equitation de salon. C’etait tres masculin comme vision de l’equitation avec une base guerriere, et c’est assez amusant de la voir assimilee et transformee dans notre culture equestre moderne qui est devenue feministe. Pas de jugement, juste une constatation.

JP     

JP  Giacomini
Lexington Kentucky USA
www.jpgiacomini.com
www.baroquefarmsusa.com
www.equusacademy.com

Daniel Reyssat
Déconnecté
Inscrit: 23/04/2011

J'adore cette vidéo, je la regarde régulièrement ! Et avec le son bien sûr !!

A chaque fois ça me rebooste, peut-être mes objectifs "horseballistiques" y sont-ils pour quelque chose ?...