Hello Mick......I am not sure of what you are saying. I would say that " The neck should never be down but it should be supple and not to stiffen against the riders aids..A horses poll can be up but he can be stiff behind the poll. If the neck and shoulders are stiff so is the back....."

I do not like horses slowing down their tempo to get shoulder in. The horse should flow like a river through the banks...............

I am not sure if you will understand what I am saying but I tried,

gigi