Reverse Pirouettes

a dictionary
http://butler.cc.tut.fi/~fabre/ratsastajat/sanasto1.html

In the reverse pirouette you may pay attention to shoulders work,
and your horse may try to put all his weitgh on forhand to do not have work is behind.

those are not reverse
reverse reverse pirouette
http://www.le-site-cheval.com/figures/pirouette.php

Gigi écrit:

Herve: Yes, the haunches do cross but the shoulders do not. They keep on the line of travel. I think travers and renvers are universal movements done the same way all over the world.

I don't think so.
See the picture La Croupe au mur at
http://membres.lycos.fr/chuchote/cheval/eq_lagueriniere/lagueriniere.html
and, please, explain to me how the horse can go sideway without crossing the front legs.

Message édité par: Marcantoni, à: 2007/03/21 10:51

Hervé , may be it is not on all book the same,

but may be it needs
few experiment on ground work with pirouette and pirouette reverse,
and
read again what Baucher 2nd way of Faverot written about the pirouette.

Hervé the "croupe au mur" OF LA G. is very good, but it is not a pirouette

Mick, I'm talking about travers and renvers and not pirouette.

Hello Mick,
I think Herve is correct.It's a matter of degree how the same aids are applied.That's why,at the start,I suggested transitions from 'Reverse Pirouette' around the forehand with diagonal effects,to'Full Pass'which is the same as croup au mur (just no wall),to 'Ordinary Pirouette'around the hindquarters.In all 3 movements(Travers and Renvers included)the outside legs,front and back,cross the inside ones.The horse carries it's weight to the inside in all 3 movements,and the rider sits to that side,a little more forward in the Reverse Pirouette,directly to the side in Full Pass,and a little back in the Ordinary Pirouette.Diagonal effects are required in all 3 movements,to have the horse look in the direction of travel,whether the horse goes around the forehand,directly sideways or around the hindquarter.Not easy to ride with regularity. With regards,Sandy.

Please except my apologies. I suppose we can say it is on four tracks, but what I see much of the time is riders allowing the outside shoulder to drift too much off the line and then the purpose of the travers-renvers is lost. It becomes more of a "leg yielding" exercise then a "bending" exercise. When one puts the haunches in, right away the horse wants to swing the shoulders out. The bend through the body is lost if the shoulder moves too much off the line of travel.

Hi Sandy,
Diagonal effect in travers and renvers means the opposition to forward movement is done by the inside rein. It is possible (and I think better) to use an outside lateral effect, ie to oppose forward movement by the outside rein. In this outside lateral effect, the inside rein is used only to bend the horse (the bending is used to keep balance on the shoulders).

Hi Gigi,
Leg yielding is a german movement, unknown in french tradition, which practice crossing and bending in the same movements.
You must not forget you can only bend the neck and not the body of the horse (so the idea you can collect the horse by bending his body is wrong beacuse it is impossible).

Regards,
Hervé

Hi Gigi,
Leg yielding is a german movement, unknown in french tradition, which practice crossing and bending in the same movements.
You must not forget you can only bend the neck and not the body of the horse (so the idea you can collect the horse by bending his body is wrong beacuse it is impossible).

Regards,
Hervé

Hi Herve: I cannot agree that leg yielding is a bending exercise since I do practice this movement. There should not be any bend in leg yield. I agree totally that the horse cannot really bend his body. When the horse flexes at the POLL and engages a hind leg then the "look" is bending. Being a judge graduate here in the USA, I find many riders neck bending and never getting the legs of the horse where they need to be.

I mean french tradition practice crossing and bending in the same movements (shoulder-in, travers and renvers), not leg yielding (where there is no bend as you say it). I'm sorry, I read english better than I write it :-)

If the bending of the body is an illusion, what is the goal you are pursuing in keeping the shoulders strait in travers and renvers ?

Message édité par: Marcantoni, à: 2007/03/22 14:13

If the bending of the body is an illusion, what is the goal you are pursuing in keeping the shoulders strait in travers and renvers ?<br><br>Message édité par: Marcantoni, à: 2007/03/22 14:13

A horse’s spine bends very little but his belly gives way when he steps a certain way with his legs and is position a certain way with his poll. I like to feel that the horse keeps his neck in the middle of his chest and flexes his poll when asked to bend in the body. I separate bend meaning the swing of the rib cage and flexion to the poll of the horse. If I keep the shoulders straight, then there is no escaping the real swing in the belly and hip. If the shoulders move off the line too much then the horse is only crossing the legs with a stiff body.

Does that make any sense?? :)